book, oss in china pre-lewd to cold war to the professor, if you would come start life briefly describing china's roel in world war ii. >> china's role in world war ii was very complex. first of the entered the world first. most people in china would agree china enter the world war ii way back in 1936 with the 77. but that wasn't recognized or the western scholarship because st people wanted to start off september 31st, 1999. in that sense, china was into the war much longer on the other hand they were fully mechanized
by the war which really didn't happen in china per say so the war in china was important to the much larger part of the world only after pearl harbor, so when china, which had been going on for a good part of the four years, suddenly becomes part of the global war and when the officially become allies in the united states most prominently, so there is sort of an active democracy and the axis of evil during world war ii. so, that is the issue. however, china's role in world war ii in theory should be very important because of pre-war because china as well as the united states u.s. to lift the
asia first and second strategy which has become a major issue. while most of the british try t down play that role and i think in retrospect, both sides had this validity and the argument, and by the time china had becom very important toward the end o 1943, 1944 the nature of the had changed because the u.s. original strategy was to drive the japanese to the western
pacific to the edge to go north and through the japan homeland. but by the end of 1943 to 44 particularly after the battle o the philippines. so the land route which was urgently planned by china have become much less significant. so that's why it is very mplex. >> professor why did you plan the attack in china in 1937? >> that is a long story. to make it short, both japan an china were military and economically in the 1930's and japan has a very different national psyche than the chinese. there are big, divided and
deeply torn between the communist movement and the nationalist movement. japan is much more unified and much more insecure because the? ze of the nation and also because of its ambition which i bickel, japan also had a very strong -- was impacted by the german experience in world wa ii, and so they believed german seek to the dhaka was defeated in world war i because the lack of a lot of territorial possession overseas which would ovide the industrial mission ? japan wants to prepare for?? the next sort of a superpower o? position in asia and that is one of the reasons to go after chin? >> what? was the oss?????? >> with the office of strategic? services which was created in??
july, 1941 by the executive orde?r from fdr.???????? before it was created our intelligence service had always been a rise as highly technical. you had the u.s. army, the u.s. navy, the state department and fbi cut treasury, commerce and every major agency in the u.s. government had its own intelligence service specialized
nature. so it was created to naturalize or centralize that intelligence existence which is something that the model offered the british which is also very controversy all major -- major because there are blamed by inference in the british system. so it was a very interesting experience because in world war ii was the prior opportunity for the proponent of a centralized intelligence to prove its worth? ?d that's likely it was???? fascinating and generated a lot of argument for the purpose of providing the legal??????? justification.????????? it became a very important??? ground because all that exist in
military generals or admirals' did not like having the overarching intelligence service working under them because they are the local boss. and only in china the command structure was a mess. there was no unity of command, and the creator, the director of the oss opportunity so they invested very heavily and tried to thrive on chaos which oss di cceed to some degree but i write this book because i thought this was a very important ingalls to illustrate and then pardoned aspect of how the u.s. intelligence bureaucracy and home u.s.-china relationship was formulated in this very complicated wallgren def bureaucracy. >> welcome a professor, you had the oss role in china in world war ii. >> the roll was, again, a very
complicated story because oss went to china initially with one single most important mission that is to establish an independent intelligence operation free of control buy not only the chinese but also? other major players of the u.s.? government mainly before the state department, the army, the fbi. so it was to prove that you can coordinate all of the intelligence services for the intelligence by different departments. so, they go to china to do a lot of things. and essentially it didn't work that way because of the complex command structure in china. the army and navy didn't get along, the military commander and the nationalist leader didn't get along and the risk the communist forces, the
nationalist forces so it is a total mess and oss has this message in this case in china and essentially they also have big lessons to learn from. >> would you -- back entities the chinese nationalist and essentially they have a very different political vision for china. and they're motivated -- >> but they all wanted the japanese out, correct? >> they wanted the japanese out, but the japanese is still a lot of people come some people in china for example the nationalist is the purpose of itself. it will be unified. for the communists and a degree is not an end of itself it is a tool, it is a means for rich to overthrow the opponent, the
national government. so that's why the communist attitude towards the japanese were much more ambivalent than the chinese nationalist. and that sort of ambivalence was never clearly explained during of more time, and during the period after war people were beginning to say this in the u.s. politics in particular. s to the role and mission of chinese communist and how they actually did in world war ii and how the u.s. military and the u.s. government officials. that's the debate that has ravaged the nation for decades. >> so, was the oss successful in achieving anything in china during world war ii? >> yes, they were successful in some aspects. one of the important things was
the oss was the first american intelligence regime. the had the intelligence analysis into the intelligence service. that is an incredible contribution of the oss to our national intelligence service. it's much more holistic, and i consider that as a very big success. the china and burma india theater. and if the special operations started with the oss in china and world war ii.
oss also established the foundation for some of the intelligence framework that pos it to china for example. they are a training of the younger experts and those peopl ter world war to become the leading authorities of the american intelligence as well as the government policy services, so those are very big contributions. they also have some other lessons and grounders as well. >> what was one of the blunders >> one of the things is that i would say oss is trying so hard to establish itself as legitimate. they're always trying to
constantly. for example, its independence from the liberation intelligence. the are too reliant upon th british intelligence. now for the intelligence analysis to the intelligence service is also a flaw itself. it works both ways. that's because once you add this analysis to the service. it's very fanatical. in other words it is not just to inform, it is to predict. and that is taking, the intelligence services.
before the oss was created for example, fdr had challenges every day from the. the president had to make his own decision as to what is the best way, so the analysis to the first she makes the decision. now, with the oss analysis into it, then the national leader. this is exactly what is going to happen to read this is what is going to happen. so the president becomes kind of sleazy in his own position. that can be potentially very dangerous because you created the scene intelligence with a monopoly and cubin mind oss is centralizing and i mentioned have it every time there's a natural disaster happening. we always try to centralize the bureaucracy. and the same happened after pearl harbor.
the same thing happened after 9/11. so this is what it means among the police. the access to the president time and that is good. sometimes world affairs are not really measurable exactly. so you must have interpreted interpretations of the???? ?formation.??? with a centralized system you d? not have that normally and that in turn creates partisanship in the intelligence community an sometimes very hard ball to the tional security. you can see that. people get.?????????? the biggest flaw of the oss embassy that had something to do with the nature of the intelligence. >> maochun yu is a professor of history here of the u.s. naval academy. this is his book, oss and china
preludin to a cold war. where are you from and why do ?u come to the states?? >> i grew up in china and grew? up -- this was the wartime? capital of china.??????? that's where all the major? players in the book stay since my child all the names of local or familiar with the diamond treated by a lot of things. the reason why i could write a book like this is because in th? late-1980s, bill casey was a?? preliminary to ronald reagan is? also a? history buff and decid? he wanted to open up all of the? operations file.???????? nobody in the world had done?? that.? you open u??p your own???? intelligence agencies, entire?? ?erations files to read that's?
amazing. so now it is at the national?? archives in the college park of? maryland.? it is? a gigantic pile that ha? about 8,000 cubic? feet of fil? so i delve into this and i find? some of the fascinating stuff s? i decided to write the book and? the book was first published in? 1997 on the anniversary of the cia. and then 9/11 happened, and interestingly five they were -- the reviewer in the more immediate current affairs, so a few days later this. i will be interested with a lot
of people began coming into the u.s. institute press had a god deal in the paperback of that. originally it was published byp? yale university press.p?p?t? >> maochun yu, how many american personnel were in china during world war ii? >> comparatively speaking very few. but, the pre-eminence of china given by the american politic and society its proportionate t any other area coming year, that's because the emotional tie china, missionaries and college professors, adventures, ey all go to china so there i a strong relationship thing. there's also the rhetorical requirement for putting china at the high your place because of?
the china of here collapsed america will have a major problem dealing with that, so a u.s. policy is world war ii to keep china.?????? but your reality? because of t? logistical strategic plurality of? this,.??????? your attitude of it wasn't??? pretty? low.????????? then it was americans?? contributing?? to world war i? read over 60% of the materials went to britain, and its commonwealth countries. somewhere around 25% went to th soviet union. during the entire war, less tha 2% wento to china.????? so rhetorically china was very? important. but, in terms of material pport, wasn't very small.
and that was ironic. it had a lot to do with the service rivalry of policy, priorities, logistical difficulties, but overall it's very important we come with the chinese and it doesn't work of chinese-made whether it is reduced as i said earlier. as to how many chinese died during world war ii? >> the numbers were varied. the most accept a number dealing with china was 15 million.x?x?x? >> 15 million? >> 15 million. >> that is close to with the soviet union does. >> soviet union lost more in the more concentrated way because you love to fight in the area.
but -- >> japan lost.??????? most of these 50 million casualties were civilians in china. so, that the accepting. >> maochun yu, professor, wha do you teach here at the u.s. naval academy? >> mostly the military history of world war ii and modern chin i also teach the u.s. naval institute, since fascinating. been there for 18 years and it's a blast. >> yet here is the of bouck. this is booktv on c-span2. visit book tv to watch any of the programs you see here on line to retype the author or the title in the upper side of the page and click search.
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callamore from booktv college series. brian vandaemark talks about american sheiks, beirut and its founding families. this is recorded at the united states naval academy. it's about ten minutes. on your screen now is brian vandeemark.j) his most recent american sheiks) to families, for generations an) the story of america's influence in the middle east. professor, who was daniel? >> he was the founder of what became the university of beirut. >> how did he go about doing that? >> a lot of american on to the real spirit. he also had the financial
backing. the copper conglomerate that made the family wealthy in the 19th century. >> what was reverend list's goal in founding the american university in beirut? >> his initial view differed from what became his life's work. he arrived in the middle east in the 1850's and determined to convert muslims to christianity and very quickly realized that wasn't going to happen and it the way to make a connection was not to convert them but to educate them and to include their lives intangible concrete ways because that's what they responded to positively. and once he had that in sight, he ran with it and developed what later became and remainsx the university of the middle east and it's the american institution. >> is it still open? >> it is indeed.